Bioware General (Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Other)

[Raga]

ME2 was shit.

People keep praising it to the skies as the greatest thing since the orgasm but it was shit.

Daddy issues out the ass, Did fuck all to advance the plot, more corridor shooting than you can shake a space marine at. But hey at least it's got that Suicide mission right? Way to blow your load on the do nothing middle chapter. And let's go over those deep characters.

Miranda: Did I mention I'm pahfect? Also I have daddy issues plz halp
Jack: I'm legit fucked up and only PCenis can help me!
Jacob: That priiiiiize
Thane: I'm dying.v Also I'm the source of someone's daddy issues.
Grunt: I'm not as good as Wrex but I'm a Krogan and it's really hard to fuck up writing a Krogan.

Wrex's bit on Tuchanka, Mordin, Tali and Garrus, and MAYBE Legion were good.

3 of them were from the previous game.

ME was never some gift from the gaming gods on high. At it's best it was enjoyable as Bioware fare can be and had a handful of genuinely decent characters and touching moments. People that lionize the first three games ESPECIALLY ME2 need to be more honest about what it really was.

I love ME2. It's my favorite ME game. But it's because I don't really give a rat's ass about the plot.

[SciFlyBoy]

well it's because of my emotions I can't really play the original trilogy anymore, hell I have tried many times, but ME3 ending have well ruined it for me (which why I have spend some time to find the reason as to why the original trilogy, starts to fall apart on itself and doom the characters into what ever ME3 ending turned into.).

I have seen better overall stories with endings fitting for characters in major series before ME3, like the Metal Gear Solid series, Legacy of Kain (it's not ended yet but the last game ended on a very hopeful note enough for me to know Kain succeed in what he set out to do a thousand years ago), Uncharted series and so on, ME trilogy doesn't end in a way that fitted the series and especially not for the characters (even with the extended ending doesn't make up for it in my opinion to what happened and how BW just handle it was just bad in my opinion.)

Of course the endings left a sour taste in my mouth as well and I can see people having high expectations for something that is designed. I accepted it because I've found that bad endings reflect real life. Maybe that aspect is the sour part, since I'm playing a fantasy. They designed an ending that was meant to be impactful and they ended up skipping on the emotion that the player wanted to feel, but it left us with an emotion none the less. I was furious with my original ending and I found that that reflected reality. But the 100 plus hours of content before that was very satisfying. Like a great date that just didn't end up with a kiss. I still remember the great time and cherish it. I'm still a little upset, but not everything is going to end great.

[Someone With Mass]

I love ME2. It's my favorite ME game. But it's because I don't really give a rat's ass about the plot.

Same, but it didn't help that Harbinger was reduced to a meme.

When it comes to the plot, I've always thought it has been a bit light in BioWare games. KOTOR? Something-something Star Forge. I was too busy getting to know the characters to care.

[Vol]

Inasmuch as Bioware does story well, it is almost invariably in the form of the short story rather than the novel. They even called ME2 "an anthology" a few times during development.

I suppose? I'm hard pressed to think of any example of a (good) game where the overarching plot wasn't relegated to the structure for interesting moments and characters and gameplay to occur in. And then the nature of video games requires abstracting out a plot into very obvious beats anyway. The medium is suited for cinema more than novels.

[Raga]

That'a actually most stories in general I would argue. Plot is almost never the reason people enjoy a story in any medium. It's oversold in general. Most plots follow the structure of a handful of conventions. When people say they like the plot, they usually mean one of two things. A) They like the plot *twists* or B) they like the theme which they are confusing for the plot.

[Vol]

I might have to agree with you, depending on what we're defining as the plot. Looking over my favorite recent fiction novels, there's not really a good counterpoint. Fight Club, maybe.

[TTTX]

I suppose? I'm hard pressed to think of any example of a (good) game where the overarching plot wasn't relegated to the structure for interesting moments and characters and gameplay to occur in. And then the nature of video games requires abstracting out a plot into very obvious beats anyway. The medium is suited for cinema more than novels.

The plot should at the very least give give good reason as to why the characters a reason (or common goal) to even be together, maybe also give a reason as to why the hero they are the only one who can do it and such.

ME2 doesn't really give much of a reason for most them to come together other then TIM says we need these people (and most them doesn't even seem to care to be there, at least they did that in ME1 and ME3) even Shepard doesn't even need to be the hero of the story and Shepard seems even less interesting in anything happening around them, like being dead for 2 years is like "yeah whatever don't care that much".

[Raga]

To me, most of that is just like "why doesn't Gwaihir (king of the giant eagles) just drop the ring in Mt. Doom from the air?"

Plot incoherence is a problem. But even a coherent plot is usually not the reason a given story does or doesn't work. The tolerance for plot incoherence is usually directly proportional to how good the other aspects (characters, theme, tone, etc.) of the story are.

Why does the story need to give a reason for why only the hero can do it? It's the story of who managed to do it, not the only one who could have done it (unless it's literally a Chosen One story).

Also, I think the game does provide reasons why everybody is on your team and why Shepard doesn't dwell (outwardly) on the 2 years dead thing. Whether they are good or personally acceptable is a whole other kettle of fish, but they are present.

[Dragaros]

That'a actually most stories in general I would argue. Plot is almost never the reason people enjoy a story in any medium. It's oversold in general. Most plots follow the structure of a handful of conventions. When people say they like the plot, they usually mean one of two things. A) They like the plot *twists* or B) they like the theme which they are confusing for the plot.

If plot is the main events of a story authored and presented in a connected sequence, then I'm not sure I can agree with that in totality. The way a story unfolds itself, the events themselves, how the characters move along the narrative and interact with each other and change for better or for worse, the characters' motives and goals, obstacles to overcome or be dashed by, action and consequence, world building, etc, are all things one looks for in a work, whether it be a book, a game, a play, a tv show, or a film, and they are essential elements to a work's plot. It is important in evaluating a piece of entertainment, in my opinion.

I played through the Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain games purely for the plot. The gameplay I often found boring and tedious, and the puzzles annoying, but damn if I wasn’t hooked and curious to see how the ages long machinations between Kain, Mobius, The Hylden, The Elder God, and Raziel were going to play out.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbEWZeh5fx4

[Dragaros]

https://www.biowarestore.com/vetra-lith ... 54580851=1

[TheodoricFriede]

AAAIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Vol]

Annnnd bought. Miss my Tali litho still. This will help.

[TTTX]

To me, most of that is just like "why doesn't Gwaihir (king of the giant eagles) just drop the ring in Mt. Doom from the air?"

Plot incoherence is a problem. But even a coherent plot is usually not the reason a given story does or doesn't work. The tolerance for plot incoherence is usually directly proportional to how good the other aspects (characters, theme, tone, etc.) of the story are.

Why does the story need to give a reason for why only the hero can do it? It's the story of who managed to do it, not the only one who could have done it (unless it's literally a Chosen One story).

Also, I think the game does provide reasons why everybody is on your team and why Shepard doesn't dwell (outwardly) on the 2 years dead thing. Whether they are good or personally acceptable is a whole other kettle of fish, but they are present.

there are reasons for that, like Mordor is very well guarded (you know archers, catapults and so), have their own flying creatures and that giant eye that can paralyze you if you get to close and holding the ring. Not to mention the Ring will eventually corrupt it's user (which doesn't always take long)

Well ME2 do spend a good portion of how Shepard is special, an icon (so muh so that if they died humanity might follow and you know that's apparently enough reason to revive them) etc, but doesn't tell us why he is the only one who can lead this mission (there is something about being able to win the loyalty of the people around them, but that's not a skill no else has) or why we even need these exact people (since we have no idea what the Collector world is like or if there are an giant army on the other side at any time during the game until the very end).
Not to mention there is the whole Collector threat who only attacks remote human colonize and that's really bad somehow (despite the fact Batarians have been doing that for decades at this point), we don't even get to see what their plan was until the very end and even then we never really get the full extent other then they are building a Reaper, we have no idea what step 2 was once it was completed.

[Raga]

If plot is the main events of a story authored and presented in a connected sequence, then I'm not sure I can agree with that in totality. The way a story unfolds itself, the events themselves, how the characters move along the narrative and interact with each other and change for better or for worse, the characters' motives and goals, obstacles to overcome or be dashed by, action and consequence, world building, etc, are all things one looks for in a work, whether it be a book, a game, a play, a tv show, or a film, and they are essential elements to a work's plot. It is important in evaluating a piece of entertainment, in my opinion.

I played through the Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain games purely for the plot. The gameplay I often found boring and tedious, and the puzzles annoying, but damn if I wasn’t hooked and curious to see how the ages long machinations between Kain, Mobius, The Hylden, The Elder God, and Raziel were going to play out.

Right, I said that plot is generally oversold, not that it's impossible for the plot to be the main point. The main exceptions to what I said are murder mysteries and thrillers. It's fairly irrelevant who the characters are in the Da Vinci Code or the average Agatha Christie novel compared to what tidbit of plot information is revealed next.

For the vast bulk of all other genres, plot is not the main point and often has no inherent point beyond providing a skeleton for character development, world building, theme, and so on.

[TTTX]

Mass effect Andromeda have gotten update 1.07 now.

[Someone With Mass]

Mass effect Andromeda have gotten update 1.07 now.

It's more of a hotfix than an update.

[SciFlyBoy]

Mass effect Andromeda have gotten update 1.07 now.

It's more of a hotfix than an update.

Fixed the crash with the SOS quest though. I'm so glad that was on their end and not mine.

[Someone With Mass]

When you enter a hacked lobby that gives you unlimited ammo, invulnerability and increase jumps. Didn't notice it until every kill gave me at least 40 000 XP. The wonders of P2P.

[UNiT]

It's better to host your self to avoid that. Not to mention that there's no shitty off host lag that prevents you from headshoting mooks.

[Alienmorph]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj6St0tbaGI

Well... someone had some unrealistic sales expectations...

[SciFlyBoy]

Was anyone excited about the Nomad skins? I was looking through my inventory and found the Tali'Zorah clan skin in my stuff along with one called 'Archangel'.

[TTTX]

Was anyone excited about the Nomad skins? I was looking through my inventory and found the Tali'Zorah clan skin in my stuff along with one called 'Archangel'.

The Archangel one, you buy at a store in the main game, so it's not new, been there since the game came out.

[SciFlyBoy]

The Archangel one, you buy at a store in the main game, so it's not new, been there since the game came out.

I only bought one and it's the metallic orange that goes with my suit. There were a ton in my inventory though, N7 one, Tali, a hexagon one.

[SciFlyBoy]

The Archangel one, you buy at a store in the main game, so it's not new, been there since the game came out.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I mean my eyes are tight shut and I'm deeply concentrating, I now remember that I saw those skin descriptions on the right hand side of the screen, not the left. That means I saw them in a store. My bad. Still though, it's neat they even offered a clan Zorah skin

[TheodoricFriede]

Going to post this here as i doubt we are concerned about spoilers anymore.

Hints at Quarian DLC

To summarize, apparently there are hints of the Quarian DLC in the new multiplayer mission.

[SciFlyBoy]

Going to post this here as i doubt we are concerned about spoilers anymore.

Hints at Quarian DLC

To summarize, apparently there are hints of the Quarian DLC in the new multiplayer mission.

Oh my.

I have four planets explored and doing my fifth. A couple outposts set up and one ark found. Nothing found yet about quarians except for the quarian nav things I occasionally find in canisters. Hope to get more in on my day off next week.

[Vol]

On that note, it's been a good while, so unless anyone has any objections to voice, spoilers are fair game in here. Though putting them in spoiler tags as a courtesy is still a nice thing to do.

Has Bioware said a single word about the gaming rags claiming Montreal is fucked?

[TheodoricFriede]

Has Bioware said a single word about the gaming rags claiming Montreal is fucked?

Not a word.

And frankly its probably something that has only barely been discussed within the companies EA and Bioware. The "worst selling mass effect" still sold quite well in what is currently a very competitive market.

I imagine we wont really know for a while.

I have a feeling that Michael Gambles recent meeting that was "very important to him personally" was probably to argue that the series should continue.

[Someone With Mass]

Andromeda didn't come close to the predicted sales (then again. EA), but I think it still did well enough.

BioWare's been doing Mass Effect uninterrupted for close to a decade, so I think a change will just work out fine. Who knows, maybe Mac Walters will be put on something else and hopefully forgotten when/if Mass Effect is thawed out.

Also, that quarian thing sounds like it's going to be multiplayer related. I'd be disappointed if it is, but not surprised, since that'd require the least amount of resources.

[TheodoricFriede]

Andromeda didn't come close to the predicted sales (then again. EA), but I think it still did well enough.

Here the deal though.

If it hit projected sales it would have been the highest selling Bioware game ever.

That was never going to happen the way this game was marketed.

[Alienmorph]

Well, it's good we're getting to see the quarians one last time, since I highly doubt there's gonna be much more than one or two big DlCs for Andromeda, with the series being up "on hiatus".

[Dragaros]

Went to the bookstore the other day, swung by the comics section and skimmed through Mass Effect Andromeda: Discovery #1.

Here's what happened for any who are curious:

► Show Spoiler

Kandros goes undercover and secures a meeting with Jien Garson on Earth. She gives him a mission alongside her security chief to find a quarian scientist named Shio'Leth Vas Novarra to prove his trustworthiness. He was the individual who gave the Initiative the almost real-time data of Andromeda from those geth telescopes. Some recently discovered flaws in his formulas make the Initiative nervous about launching but he's gone missing so they can't ask him any questions to account for these errors. They think he's on the Citadel. The quarian is indeed hiding there, recording a message to a loved one, apologizing and saying the only way to keep them safe is to stay away, but he is suddenly taken by a mysterious, sinister looking cybernetic salarian and his company of LOKI mechs. Kandros doesn't reach Shio'Leth in time, but they find his encrypted message, and decide to go visit the Migrant Fleet.

[Someone With Mass]

Okay, that new map in the latest strike team mission is pretty cool. At first, I thought it was a slight alteration of that map that was basically a gravity well room from the singleplayer. Then the objective came up and a hallway opened up. Then during the second objective, another segment of the map opened up, leading to a room with plenty of verticality to it and then we had to run back through it to the extraction point, which is in the gravity well room. It sort of gave the sensation of exploring a vault.

I like what they did there. If only things like that could have been done with more maps from the start to make the whole thing look less like a copy of ME3's multiplayer with less content.

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxxkfZCjqc

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOkgUh1JYQ

[Dragaros]

"Rated NA 273: Fryda Wolff: Hosts Ash and Matt interview Fryda Wolff. Voice Actress who plays Sara Ryder in Mass Effect: Andromeda. We chat about Alien: Covenant, what it was like to record Mass Effect and some great information about voice acting and the business around it."

[SciFlyBoy]

I did the coolest thing the other day.

I found this glitch on Elladen with a mission where you help out these three Initiative members that shuttle crashed. After I helped them and spoke to them once, they seemed to want to follow me around, at least in the Mako. So I slowly backed up just for kicks to watch them run after me until a mob spawned and they shot at it. So a light bulb came on and I backed up for about 5 mins until I got to a remnant site. Jumped out and opened fire then watched as all three of them fired at the remnant. They did all the work for me.

It was so cool I hit the Xbox button to record the whole thing and got a small video to share, I thought it was hilarious. Went to save it and somehow lost it. Now I can't find it and I'm sure it's gone forever. It was so awesome guys, I'm bummed.

[Riptide]

Didn't Bioware release a two month plan for patches with fixes and changes for the character creator and shit?

Like, are they still doing those or what?

[TheodoricFriede]

Didn't Bioware release a two month plan for patches with fixes and changes for the character creator and shit?

Like, are they still doing those or what?

Well, Michael Gamble said that they are "on track" as far as the patch goes, and the two month statement was not announced until the sixth of April.

He also was recently questioned and he said it would be "soon".

Im guessing sometime next week.

[magnuskn]

So, a question which has been bugging me for years (and I suppose it certainly has come up here in the past):

How come that nobody in the "present" of ME 1-3 knows what Quarians look like under their masks? Yes, they have been wearing their suits for hundreds of years, but the Citadel has archives going back thousands, as do other civilizations. Certainly very few people have seen current Quarians without their suits, but if they are wondering, they only would have to space google it. Yet the game itself treats Quarians true appearance as a big mystery, even though it shouldn't be.

[SciFlyBoy]

So, a question which has been bugging me for years (and I suppose it certainly has come up here in the past):

How come that nobody in the "present" of ME 1-3 knows what Quarians look like under their masks? Yes, they have been wearing their suits for hundreds of years, but the Citadel has archives going back thousands, as do other civilizations. Certainly very few people have seen current Quarians without their suits, but if they are wondering, they only would have to space google it. Yet the game itself treats Quarians true appearance as a big mystery, even though it shouldn't be.

I always thought they were a private people, that their faces were always covered in some manner. Also why do other races when they wear a helmet have a window you can see their faces and not quarians? I think their helmets were just a continuation on their practices to cover their faces.

Was it Matriarch Aethyta you spoke to that made a point of seeing the quarians before they wore their suits?

[TheodoricFriede]

Its because Bioware didnt want to risk having to describe a quarian.

Seriously, there is NO WAY AT ALL there weren't thousands upon thousands of pictures of suitless quarians on the extranet.

Frankly, I dont even believe that the rest of the crew didnt know what Tali looked like, let alone other quarians.

[Vol]

The Morning War was only a few centuries back. Depending on what the asari population attrition rate looks like, the majority of living asari might be old enough to know what quarians looked like. Plus Fornax does quarian models commonly. It's a mystery that makes no sense in the context of the setting, since anybody who wants to know should be able to find out in literally seconds.

[magnuskn]

So, basically what I thought. Well, it's another little plothole for convenience.

[Someone With Mass]

If I had to guess, I'd say that illustrations of quarians without suits would be mostly seen in medical journals to help with treatments, since I doubt a lot of them would post nudes or something like it to the point where it'd be easily accessible. Most humans probably can't picture the features of a naked quarian, because they are the newcomers and haven't personally experienced it, unlike the asari that have enough years to have been around since the times when the suits weren't needed as much.

The quarians also don't strike me as people that need to let the rest of the galaxy know what they're up to, because their general view is that they're not wanted or even loathed by a lot of races.

Not to mention that simply sharing air between couples is considered an intimate act. Going further than that would probably happen and stay behind closed doors.

[TheodoricFriede]

since I doubt a lot of them would post nudes or something like it to the point where it'd be easily accessible.

Counterpoint.

"Hey, you on Pilgramage? I'll give you 10,000 credits to let me film you naked."

[SciFlyBoy]

Counterpoint.

"Hey, you on Pilgramage? I'll give you 10,000 credits to let me film you naked."

Quarian male: "Sure. Let me just hold my breath."