***Mass Effect Andromeda SPOILER Thread***

[Vol]

I'm counting humanoid as a higher resolution version of what we see through the visor in the OT. If there's anything clearly more alien about them, you take that one.

[TheodoricFriede]

I'm counting humanoid as a higher resolution version of what we see through the visor in the OT. If there's anything clearly more alien about them, you take that one.

Works for me.

Of course, this is all based on the assumption we will see them anytime soon. Im assuming a dlc, but it very well could be literally years.

Personally im hoping for a return to this as far as faces go.

[Alienmorph]

So you're saying less sexy quarians, and with either still no face reveal, or only male face reveal b'cause "huurr durr fans have way too many and too different ideas of what a lady quarian looks like huuur...". Yeah, sounds about right.

And this assuming that the Quarian Ark ISN'T half overrun by Reapers husks and we don't walk straight into Dead Space territory if/when it shows up, or something like that. Which I'm not so sure we should rule out. Not saying that they would kill ALL of the quarian colonists, but they could play cocktease and give us like only one or two fully modeled characters and everyone else is either mutated or in stasis.

And yeah, as "canonic" designs go, the old ME1 is still one of my faves as well.

[TheodoricFriede]

So you're saying less sexy quarians, and with either still no face reveal, or only male face reveal b'cause "huurr durr fans have way too many and too different ideas of what a lady quarian looks like huuur...". Yeah, sounds about right.

...Uh...
Frankly i think it has much more to do with the fact that the male quarian will probably be a gay romance.

Also jokes on you because smaller bust size is attractive to me.

[Alienmorph]

I was talking in general, big tits are only one way for a woman to be sexy. My biggest high-school crush was as flat as a table but had an amaaaazing ass, for example

[Vol]

Yeah, if it's not Bi-Jaal, it'll be a quarian guy, probably also bisexual. I'm unsure if they'll use the "stasis treatment" thing for them to be less fatally handicapped by their immune systems though. But hey, not like banging is the endgame in relationships anymore, nor should it be.

However, when comparing Troodon's model rip of the Adept from ME3 to the Adept in ME4, the latter is shorter and stockier, but when I vertically stretched them to match, their proportions were actually pretty similar.

[TheodoricFriede]

Yeah, if it's not Bi-Jaal, it'll be a quarian guy, probably also bisexual. I'm unsure if they'll use the "stasis treatment" thing for them to be less fatally handicapped by their immune systems though. But hey, not like banging is the endgame in relationships anymore, nor should it be.

It wont be Bi-Jaal. Jaal is very obviously only into women. And thats fine.

If its not quarian, it will be a drell. But i think its pretty telling that its constantly referred to as the Quarian Ark, not the Other-Races ark. Kind of makes you wonder how big their ark is. Is it still a total of 20,000 and they each only brought 5000 or so people? Is their ark enormous and thats why it was so hard to get working? Can they just fit more people because their ark was never meant to interface with the nexus, and was intended for transport only?

I can see a conceivable scenario where they get stasis treatment. Kind of forgot all about that really.

[TTTX]

It wont be Bi-Jaal. Jaal is very obviously only into women. And thats fine.

If its not quarian, it will be a drell. But i think its pretty telling that its constantly referred to as the Quarian Ark, not the Other-Races ark. Kind of makes you wonder how big their ark is. Is it still a total of 20,000 and they each only brought 5000 or so people? Is their ark enormous and thats why it was so hard to get working? Can they just fit more people because their ark was never meant to interface with the nexus, and was intended for transport only?

I can see a conceivable scenario where they get stasis treatment. Kind of forgot all about that really.

or maybe their ark is bigger or they are putting more people on then 20.000.

Although my theory about their problems with their ark (because they couldn't follow the others right away) is because some geth programs infiltrated the ships computers as stowaways and maybe they even integrated with Ark's SAM in order increased their own intelligence because they are away from the main geth.

Yeah, if it's not Bi-Jaal, it'll be a quarian guy, probably also bisexual. I'm unsure if they'll use the "stasis treatment" thing for them to be less fatally handicapped by their immune systems though. But hey, not like banging is the endgame in relationships anymore, nor should it be.

if they do then it'll probably only be increased similar to the krogan, like 4-5%.

[Alienmorph]

I just realized a thing. The Quarians joined a program that on a fundamental level is connected to AI technology.

The fucking Quarians.

Enough of them were not only happy to leave their people and any hope to retake Rannoch, but they launched into Dark Space with an AI wathching them over. Or we're supposed to believe their ark is the only one that doesn't have a SAM AI core installed onboard, and that can still work for 600 years somehow?

I'm sorry, but why every time I think for more than a minute about the Andromeda Initiative lore-wise the damn thing has more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese? It can't be just me being nitpicky, ffs!

[TheodoricFriede]

It can't be just me being nitpicky, ffs!

No... Thats pretty nitpicky.

[Vol]

@Theo: He is? All I can recall about his inclinations is 2 angaran women talking about how he's blind to flirtation.

Quarians are in charge of it, sounds like, since they'd be the best suited, pun intended, to setup and execution of the project. Plus popularity. But yeah, is this thing a super-ark? Because 20k of _one_ species isn't really all that much, and if it's split across drell, elcor, volus, hanar, and quarian, that's some genetic bottlenecks just waiting to happen. And then we're assuming deaths from whatever happened.

However, you're right, in that only 4 arks were meant to plug into the Nexus, so theirs could be straight up storage. As many people and supplies as they could cram in with the infinite money the A.I. had.

But I imagine the suit situation depends on what they go for, vis-a-vis our bet. If they're going to show faces/skin, they'll write stasis magic in.

@TX: Probably. They won't be 100% fine and dandy, that'd be too easy, sot if they went that route, I'd picture it being, "I can take my mask off in private company most of the time and be fine."

@Alien: Wanna talk Dead Space, imagine the fuckin' volus section of the ark.

Well, could always have used a VI SAM instead. Or their own deal. What part of flying across dark space requires an AI anyway?

[Dragaros]

Well, growth comes with time, but the time scale in Mass Effect has always been a little wonky. If I didn't know better, I'd guess that the entire Reaper war lasted a week at best.

Same with Andromeda. Aside from the year, there's no indicator of how the time flows whatsoever.

There was a fan theory posted on reddit on the timeline of events regarding the trilogy as a whole, and the 3 individual games. Use or disregard as you will.

"How much time passes in-universe in the games? Find out here... sorta."

Yeaaah, im not suing that word. I have literally only heard it used in Mass Effect, and im pretty sure its not something actually used in science other than the obvious homo-sapien.

In the context of a universe--the fictional Mass Effect universe in this case--with multiple alien species with mental facilities on par with, lesser than, and greater than homo-sapiens, using both terms would be necessary for the sake of accuracy. Sentience pertains to the ability to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Sapience pertains to intellectual judgement. Different terms with different meanings. It would be poor science to not use the proper terminology.

If you've only heard it in Mass Effect, than I'm honestly surprised, 'cuz its everywhere in sci-fi.

Personally im hoping for a return to this as far as faces go.

I've always liked that design, and would be cool with it if that became the official look for the quarians going forward.

(But that flat nose would create a tiny bit of a continuity snarl in regards to Tali, since even through her mask one can see she has a human-like nose that protrudes further than the nose in that concept art does. Either that or Tali was a mutant by quarian standards with an extra large schnoz. Just tweak the nose a bit and everything would line up fine.)

Certainly a lot of people would be more than willing to take the explanation that Tali's photo either never happened or Tali went overboard playing around on photoshop.

Or just say Tali had it set up so the photo on display was a fake to fool passerby's, and the real photo only appears when it receives a signal from Shepard's omni-tool or he utters a certain code-phrase. Easy peasy.

Right so im ending this debate once and for all.

And it only took BioWare 4 games and 11 years to give a clear, definitive, canon answer. Would have been nice to include that info in any of the trilogy's codexes.

Kett having no reproductive organs demands this response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-b-CfHbPGQ

[TheodoricFriede]

@Theo: He is? All I can recall about his inclinations is 2 angaran women talking about how he's blind to flirtation.

He flirts with literally every woman on the ship. MaleRyder cant even almost flirt with him. And he makes a point of telling Ryder he is more interested in learning about asari than he is humans for... reasons...

Plus he had a previous relationship with an angaran woman he was utterly smitten with,a nd those same two women say he has a think for the angaran woman who runs the museum.

Well, could always have used a VI SAM instead. Or their own deal. What part of flying across dark space requires an AI anyway?

I actually think the quarians would be MORE likely to accept an AI than most other races. You have two scenarios. Either they are Daro Xen, and see AI as a tool to be used and understood, or Zaal Korris, and see a friendly AI as a new start for their people. I doubt many of them take after the military nature of Tern Logain, otherwise they probably would have tried continued to try to reclaim Rannoch, and wouldn't have jumped galaxies.

[Alienmorph]

No... Thats pretty nitpicky.

Is it? For the quarians to join the A.I. means pretty much breaking 3 of some of their most fundamental rules:

1 - They're investing a huge amount of time, resources and manpower on something that DOESN'T benefit the Migrant Fleet;
2 - They're giving up any hope to ever set foot on Rannoch and not only for themselves, but also for all their descendants;
3 - They're ALSO entrusting a fully developed, illegal AI to keep them safe during the travel to the new galaxy. After their not even fully developed AIs nearly drove them to extinction and forced the into a century-long exile.

Seems to me that the quarians would be one of the least likely species to wanting to join into something like the A.I. unless we blatantly ignore most of the story and lore about them.

[TTTX]

Well, could always have used a VI SAM instead. Or their own deal. What part of flying across dark space requires an AI anyway?

It's multi purpose, SAM is also for colonizing (it's one of the reasons why the Nexus failed in their outposts, because they didn't have a SAM to scan the environment and such, which is kind of weird that Nexus didn't have one of their own) and such along with keeping an eye on the ark.

I just realized a thing. The Quarians joined a program that on a fundamental level is connected to AI technology.

The fucking Quarians.

Enough of them were not only happy to leave their people and any hope to retake Rannoch, but they launched into Dark Space with an AI wathching them over. Or we're supposed to believe their ark is the only one that doesn't have a SAM AI core installed onboard, and that can still work for 600 years somehow?

I'm sorry, but why every time I think for more than a minute about the Andromeda Initiative lore-wise the damn thing has more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese? It can't be just me being nitpicky, ffs!

well not all quarians have a problem with AI.

Well plotholes isn't new to the series, both ME2 and ME3 start with such big holes at the begning that they can't happen as the writing tells us it happens.

[TheodoricFriede]

(But that flat nose would create a tiny bit of a continuity snarl in regards to Tali, since even through her mask one can see she has a human-like nose that protrudes further than the nose in that concept art does. Either that or Tali was a mutant by quarian standards with an extra large schnoz. Just tweak the nose a bit and everything would line up fine.)

You could write that off as easily as you could write off why turians in Andromeda look different from turians in the trilogy. Its a redesign.

[TTTX]

You could write that off as easily as you could write off why turians in Andromeda look different from turians in the trilogy. Its a redesign.

Well the turian doesn't look that different then then ones in the original trilogy.

Not to mention there is the photo of Tali from ME3 if you romanced so we do know they look rather human under those hoods.

[TheodoricFriede]

1 - They're investing a huge amount of time, resources and manpower on something that DOESN'T benefit the Migrant Fleet;
2 - They're giving up any hope to ever set foot on Rannoch and not only for themselves, but also for all their descendants;
3 - They're ALSO entrusting a fully developed, illegal AI to keep them safe during the travel to the new galaxy. After their not even fully developed AIs nearly drove them to extinction and forced the into a century-long exile.
.

1. Ensuring their species has a chance at survival in another galaxy doesnt benefit the quarians? Remember the fleet is dying. Its not widely talked about, but they knew their days were starting to look numbered.

2. Zaal Korris and his supporters people (the civilians, Andromeda Initiative is a Civilian organization) were of the opinion that they would be better off looking for new worlds to settle, rather than going after the seemingly hopeless case that is Rannoch.

3. See my above statements on quarians and AI.

[TheodoricFriede]

Not to mention there is the photo of Tali from ME3 if you romanced so we do know they look rather human under those hoods.

I think the turians look rather significantly different in terms of legs and overall lankiness.

As i said. Im expecting either a completely inscrutable face, or a face redesign.

If after all this time, and two "reveals" they STILL dont show quarian faces in game, then im sorry those Mass Effect 3 faces are noncanon.

[Alienmorph]

1. Ensuring their species has a chance at survival in another galaxy doesnt benefit the quarians? Remember the fleet is dying. Its not widely talked about, but they knew their days were starting to look numbered.

2. Zaal Korris and his supporters people (the civilians, Andromeda Initiative is a Civilian organization) were of the opinion that they would be better off looking for new worlds to settle, rather than going after the seemingly hopeless case that is Rannoch.

3. See my above statements on quarians and AI.

Fair enough, I suppose. It still seems strange to me, since literally in a matter of months all of the quarian people teamed up to try retake Rannoch, but I guess all things considered is less plot-hole-y than other elements of the whome ME:A premise.

[TheodoricFriede]

Fair enough, I suppose. It still seems strange to me, since literally in a matter of months all of the quarian people teamed up to try retake Rannoch, but I guess all things considered is less plot-hole-y than other elements of the whome ME:A premise.

Also worth noting is that not all quarians live on the fleet. Grant it there probably aren't a ton, but still.

Who knows, maybe we will see quarian lady and friend zone turian, united again.

[Someone With Mass]

As long as the quarians aren't a cardboard copy of the looks from the trilogy, I'm happy. I'd loves some more diversity other than just different colors, but I doubt there'll be much of that.

[TTTX]

I think the turians look rather significantly different in terms of legs and overall lankiness.

As i said. Im expecting either a completely inscrutable face, or a face redesign.

If after all this time, and two "reveals" they STILL dont show quarian faces in game, then im sorry those Mass Effect 3 faces are noncanon.

doesn't look like much of a redesign to me, more like a small upgrade because of the new engine and they aren't limited by old tech.

If I see it I'll believe it, until then I don't believe it.

You still need a good reasons to show the face, the Quarians don't show their face to everyone for obvious reasons and again you know DLC limited time budget, what have high priority and you know that kind of stuff.

[TheodoricFriede]

As long as the quarians aren't a cardboard copy of the looks from the trilogy, I'm happy. I'd loves some more diversity other than just different colors, but I doubt there'll be much of that.

To be fair, how much of that do you see with ANY of the races, let alone quarians?

I mean hell, I think turians have the most with 4 clothing types? (one of which actually show their claws!)

[Someone With Mass]

As long as the quarians aren't a cardboard copy of the looks from the trilogy, I'm happy. I'd loves some more diversity other than just different colors, but I doubt there'll be much of that.

To be fair, how much of that do you see with ANY of the races, let alone quarians?

I mean hell, I think turians have the most with 4 clothing types? (one of which actually show their claws!)

Well, if they stay true to their promises, BioWare's going to add some more faces to the asari.

Also, it'd be fun if the quarians have their canonical size as well. There'd be several feet between them and the turians.

[Vol]

Yeah, getting the quarians out there, that's the least of my concerns. It's what they do with them. And all the other B-races.

[magnuskn]

I like the angara a lot, but if i was given a choice that was on the scale of "Give us the angara, and we will ignore your milky way races. Helius will be yours.", even i would have to think about it.

Not even a second. I mean, sure, if you want to play as literally Hitler.

It can't be just me being nitpicky, ffs!

No... Thats pretty nitpicky.

It's really not. The idea that you can find 20.000 quarian admiral Xen's seems a bit strange to me.

[TTTX]

It's really not. The idea that you can find 20.000 quarian admiral Xen's seems a bit strange to me.

or maybe they found people like Korris, you know the other admiral that didn't have a problem AI and not crazy.

[TheodoricFriede]

It's really not. The idea that you can find 20.000 quarian admiral Xen's seems a bit strange to me.

or maybe they found people like Korris, you know the other admiral that didn't have a problem AI and not crazy.

Thank god you said it because i really didnt want to have to explain it yet again.

[magnuskn]

I'm still not sold on SAM, to be honest. While the Geth turned out okay, it was pretty touch and go with them for hundreds of years, during which one faction decided that it's a-okay to be genocidal killer robots and the other faction caved when they got put into a corner. There's a reason that AI was outlawed in the known galaxy and it was not a bad one.

[Someone With Mass]

I put that ancient AI I found in the ice right next to SAM node. Even SAM says that she's very unstable, but I did it just for fun. I doubt anything big will come out of it.

[Someone With Mass]

So I'm finally done with everything, except the tasks because fuck them.

I'm definitely going with Screen Junkies' description of this game. If the trilogy was a summer blockbuster, then this is a direct to DVD. I could probably replay it at one point when DLCs come out, but I am in no rush to go for another run.

I don't know if it's yet another bug, but there was a lot of silence during some parts aboard the Tempest and I think that could have been used to flesh out the romance with Vetra or any other crew member. While I enjoyed it, it's certainly not going to top past romances I've experienced. Felt like there wasn't a sure reason why it progressed the way it did. One moment, it's casual flirting and the next, it's kissing on top of a rock. Like there's no meat in between.

Also. The kett are without a doubt the most boring race to come out of Mass Effect. They're fuck ugly, their culture is insultingly simplistic, they're tedious to fight, their dialogues always goes back to exaltation and their "genetic superiority" and I never cared about the Archon. I just wanted him dead so he'd shut up. Even vorcha have entertained me more than any of them.

On the other hand, I find the Remnant and their creators to be fascinating. They created the Scourge and vanished while the Nexus and the arks were traveling to the Andromeda galaxy. Not to mention all the abilities to terraform and create a new life. Any idiot can destroy, but it really takes something to create life from scratch like that, even if they never intended for the anagara to go that far.

Oh and I rarely felt like there was a moment where I'd have to make a dire choice. It all worked out in the end. The salarian Pathfinder died because I thought that she was okay with giving up her life for the mission and I'd save more lives if I went with the scouts. Then she was immediately replaced and all that came from that was some mourning here and there.

Really, the only choice with the heaviest of consequences was when I chose to destroy that kett exaltation temple or whatever, because then Jaal didn't feel like talking to me for a bit aftwards.

[TTTX]

Also. The kett are without a doubt the most boring race to come out of Mass Effect. They're fuck ugly, their culture is insultingly simplistic, they're tedious to fight, their dialogues always goes back to exaltation and their "genetic superiority" and I never cared about the Archon. I just wanted him dead so he'd shut up. Even vorcha have entertained me more than any of them.

Nahh I would say the Collectors are the most boring race out of ME, because that's only because they don't have any personality or culture or really anything other then being Prothean that was harvested long ago.

Assuming there'll be a sequel and DLC (with Kett in it) we'll probably learn more about them and probably other races in Andromeda.

We are long term fans of ME, after all and I think that cloud our judgment of ME:A, after all we had 3 games in the original trilogy to flesh out races, characters and such, ME:A had to do a lot of that that stuff in one game.

ME:A does have some flaws and the Romances could have been handled a bit better, but romances didn't get that in original trilogy until ME3, they were rather fast a lose before that, a lot of romances did boil down to "You wanna get together?" or "I have the hots for you" and stuff like it, even Tali's romance are 1-2 conversation and then you are in a relationship, of course there are history between the two, but unless you played ME1 prior to ME2 you would only really what it is from what the characters tell you.

ME:A do have a lot of content (conersations and such) between the squad members or just crew in general and that already makes ME:A better then ME1 and ME2 in that area where they didn't interact at all.

[Vol]

@SWM: You sound like you had a glitch, because generally it was rare to not have a teammate conversation going on whenever I got back on the ship, one per area sometimes.

But the romance, Vetra's anyway, did jump from "I like you" to "I love you" very quickly. In my case, because I pretty much cleared the planets before doing main quests, so I started knocking out plot missions real fast, and the romance is tied to them. Though we always want more with them, no?

I liked the kett well enough. The idea is fine, kinda interesting, I can see some fun ways to move with them in the next game(s). Didn't scare me or make me feel threatened, ever, though. The Reapers did that, Sovereign most of all. ME2 undid a lot with Chatty McBugface, but the idea that the Collectors were basically their garbage minions, and yet still a huge threat, reinforced the danger. ME3, I could write an essay. Kett, at least the expeditionary force we deal with, felt like less of a threat than Cerberus did. Which is fine, since their goal is more specific, but still. By all accounts, were it not for the Scourge, the kett would've gotten their shit kicked in by the angara.

Which is a question I had. The fall of their empire was only a few centuries ago. How the fuck did the information that they were a child race of a type 1 civilization not get passed on, verbally or on paper? The Jardaan were clearly around, since they fled after the Scourge started up. Given we meet an older angaran who's about a century old, we can assume they have similar lifespans to humans/turians/asari. 150 years, we left the MW 600 ago, so 4 "full" angaran lifespans covered the the war with the Jardaan's enemy, the Scourge, and then in the last 75, the kett. How the fuck did they retain space travel and city building and so on, but forget _their creators hung out with their great great grandparents_?

@TX: I liked the Collectors for what they were. The reveal wasn't a big surprise, but it was still not obvious on the first play. The OT enemies were pretty solid in general. The worst, for me, was the merc factions in ME2. It made very little sense that they'd be so suicidally loyal to their companies, and would take such grievous losses for clients/missions. Same deal with the outlaws/exiles.

"You signed up to a paramilitary outfit to make money."
"Yes."
"So you're going to throw your life away if we command it?"
"Yep."
"Why?"
"So I can get credits to spend!"

[TTTX]

I liked the kett well enough. The idea is fine, kinda interesting, I can see some fun ways to move with them in the next game(s). Didn't scare me or make me feel threatened, ever, though. The Reapers did that, Sovereign most of all. ME2 undid a lot with Chatty McBugface, but the idea that the Collectors were basically their garbage minions, and yet still a huge threat, reinforced the danger. ME3, I could write an essay. Kett, at least the expeditionary force we deal with, felt like less of a threat than Cerberus did. Which is fine, since their goal is more specific, but still. By all accounts, were it not for the Scourge, the kett would've gotten their shit kicked in by the angara.

Which is a question I had. The fall of their empire was only a few centuries ago. How the fuck did the information that they were a child race of a type 1 civilization not get passed on, verbally or on paper? The Jardaan were clearly around, since they fled after the Scourge started up. Given we meet an older angaran who's about a century old, we can assume they have similar lifespans to humans/turians/asari. 150 years, we left the MW 600 ago, so 4 "full" angaran lifespans covered the the war with the Jardaan's enemy, the Scourge, and then in the last 75, the kett. How the fuck did they retain space travel and city building and so on, but forget _their creators hung out with their great great grandparents_?

@TX: I liked the Collectors for what they were. The reveal wasn't a big surprise, but it was still not obvious on the first play. The OT enemies were pretty solid in general. The worst, for me, was the merc factions in ME2. It made very little sense that they'd be so suicidally loyal to their companies, and would take such grievous losses for clients/missions. Same deal with the outlaws/exiles.

"You signed up to a paramilitary outfit to make money."
"Yes."
"So you're going to throw your life away if we command it?"
"Yep."
"Why?"
"So I can get credits to spend!"

Well we were talking about most boring race, not faction and the Collectors don't have anything interesting to them, as Mording said they are culturally dead and that's what's makes them boring.

Also I don't think the Collectors is much of a threat as ME2 made them out to be, they didn't have many ships, they only only attacked remote colonies via surprise attacks and that's really when they actually were good when they surprise attacked people, however when pushed they either fell like flies or they ran rather fast from the battle field, at least when Sovereign got attacked by a fleet he could hold his own, the Collectors however well they just died a lot against dozen or so people, plus the whole they are just puppets on strings without any free will or motives of their own and they were still far from completing the Reaper even after years (and that was the only real plan build a Reaper, outside from that virus thing in Mordin's recruitment mission) and that takes away some of the threat they posed, even more so because the Reapers could have been in the galaxy harvesting already if they hadn't bothered with the Collectors in the first place and that makes the entire plan rather dum and unnecessary (but you know lazy writing, plotholes and such),

As for the Jardaan and Angara, it really depends on how many knew about that information or what the Jardaan looked like, it's also possible the Jardaan actually looked like the Angara so maybe they didn't notice them (there is actually side mission where you find an Angaran helmet in what looks like a Remnant ship) after all we don't know why the Angara was created, maybe the Jardaan race had some genetic flaw they needed to fix, like losing their ability to reproduce.

[Someone With Mass]

@SWM: You sound like you had a glitch, because generally it was rare to not have a teammate conversation going on whenever I got back on the ship, one per area sometimes.

But the romance, Vetra's anyway, did jump from "I like you" to "I love you" very quickly. In my case, because I pretty much cleared the planets before doing main quests, so I started knocking out plot missions real fast, and the romance is tied to them. Though we always want more with them, no?

I liked the kett well enough. The idea is fine, kinda interesting, I can see some fun ways to move with them in the next game(s). Didn't scare me or make me feel threatened, ever, though. The Reapers did that, Sovereign most of all. ME2 undid a lot with Chatty McBugface, but the idea that the Collectors were basically their garbage minions, and yet still a huge threat, reinforced the danger. ME3, I could write an essay. Kett, at least the expeditionary force we deal with, felt like less of a threat than Cerberus did. Which is fine, since their goal is more specific, but still. By all accounts, were it not for the Scourge, the kett would've gotten their shit kicked in by the angara.

Which is a question I had. The fall of their empire was only a few centuries ago. How the fuck did the information that they were a child race of a type 1 civilization not get passed on, verbally or on paper? The Jardaan were clearly around, since they fled after the Scourge started up. Given we meet an older angaran who's about a century old, we can assume they have similar lifespans to humans/turians/asari. 150 years, we left the MW 600 ago, so 4 "full" angaran lifespans covered the the war with the Jardaan's enemy, the Scourge, and then in the last 75, the kett. How the fuck did they retain space travel and city building and so on, but forget _their creators hung out with their great great grandparents_?

@TX: I liked the Collectors for what they were. The reveal wasn't a big surprise, but it was still not obvious on the first play. The OT enemies were pretty solid in general. The worst, for me, was the merc factions in ME2. It made very little sense that they'd be so suicidally loyal to their companies, and would take such grievous losses for clients/missions. Same deal with the outlaws/exiles.

"You signed up to a paramilitary outfit to make money."
"Yes."
"So you're going to throw your life away if we command it?"
"Yep."
"Why?"
"So I can get credits to spend!"

Maybe it's because I didn't do the main missions until I had done all the side missions I could. Then again, things got very quiet in the Nomad at one point and I paired up squadmates that I know for a fact had more dialogues. I am not going to start a new playthrough just because of that, though. My first one took nearly a month. Maybe if they really improve the facial animations as they announced or if there's a big DLC.

The thing is that it feels like there's not that much else to do with Vetra's romance post dinner scene, other than a couple of references before and after the big battle. In the trilogy, it came down to physical limitations, but when the developer brag about how much more they have to work with/been able to fit into the game? I dunno. It just feels like more could have been done with it.

As for the Jardaan, I'm going so assume that they didn't think through their interaction with the angara enough because they didn't expect them to thrive as they did or that they didn't prioritize it because of their enemy. Or maybe they did leave stuff behind for the angara and it was damaged beyond repair/recognition by the Scourge.

The Collectors had at least a tragic reason why they were Reaper cannon fodder and that didn't necessarily make them appear evil as much as it made the Reapers look even douchier. The kett have not a single redeeming quality.

Also, I liked that they at least referenced that scenario with the wounded merc in Grunt's recruitment mission in ME2. They weren't prepared or expecting to fight commandos. For a lot of them, it was better than the alternative or a way to make easy money. Sure, it's a wobbly excuse, but it's better than nothing. When it comes to the exiles, it felt like they were more smaller bands of scavengers than a single unified group.

[Alienmorph]

Yep, the Collectors had a strong plot reason to be like they were, and it served to strenghten the actual main bad guys. Even assuming the worst has yet to come in Andromeda, and that it's NOT just going to be Kett reinforcements, thei're just very generic alien baddies that like to brag alot about their cultural and genetic superiority. In way, they're the perfect alien equivalent of Cerberus... and like them, despite being the least interesting faction, we're probably gonna get the Kett in the way alooot in future games too.

[TheodoricFriede]

Its like I got a different version of the game or something...

[TTTX]

Its like I got a different version of the game or something...

different experiences and they see the original trilogy as 1 game instead of 3 and remember it more nostalgia then flawed creation the trilogy is.

Personally I think the game is good.

It could have used some polish before being shipped, but that's really it.

[TheodoricFriede]

That really is it.

Its a combination of treating every game in the original trilogy as one game, and treating all the fanfiction as real, extended lore.

[Alienmorph]

Well, maybe a few years from now when we'll have more than one generic and buggy first game, and a more extended pile of plot and lore we'll all have a different opinion on the matter. I'm not blind or in denial of the flaws the Shepard's games had, I can name quite a few rather easily. And I haven't read that many f.f. either, actually. But until we can see the bigger picture we can only talk of what we have. I will grant you Archon isn't all that better or worse of a character than, for example, Saren, in general, but Saren's design was more interesting and effective, and there was some dimension to his character. They did nothing good to it in the extended lore, but it was there. Both him and Archon other than that tho ARE the typical "muahaha! Fear me you pathetic hooman!" villain BW likes.

[magnuskn]

Yeah, that insinutation that we all are looking back at the trilogy with rose-tinted classes is a bit demeaning. There are a ton of plotholes in there and some baffling decisions, into which people have gone extensively. That I am still deeply bitter after *five years* about Hack Walters and Casey Hudson screwing up the ending is a good indicator that I can perceive flaws in that product, IMO.

Andromeda is getting reamed by me so much partly because it falls into a downward trend by BioWare, which began with the trifecta of Dragon Age II, Star Wars: The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 (the latter mostly in regards to the endings and above all the "circle the wagons" reaction by BioWare/EA to fan outrage). BioWare has since then gone a way of playing it very, very safe. DA:I could have been a one-time occurance, but since ME:A is basically a science-fiction clone of DA:I, this now indicates a trend for me. Mostly inoffensive companions (Sera aside... and I'd really like to know WTF BioWare writers were thinking with her), mediocre storylines, both companions and story scoured of any edgyness. MMO style fetch-quests as filler for large, empty worlds. Large stretches of running around and gathering components to craft some rare item.

I would much more have preferred a tighter narrative for a shorter, more compact game. Where they take some chances, with story and companions.

[TheodoricFriede]

Yeah, that insinutation that we all are looking back at the trilogy with rose-tinted classes is a bit demeaning.

Yeah... wasn't really insinuating.

[TheodoricFriede]

Both him and Archon other than that tho ARE the typical "muahaha! Fear me you pathetic hooman!" villain BW likes.

Remember Harbinger?

Why dont you go ahead and tell me what characterization he had. Mass Effect 2 being the "best game in the series" after all, im sure he has a lot of subtlety and nuance.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, there was definitely more to Saren than him being a racist asshole. Archon wishes he could steal genes that'd give him that kind of depth.

Isn't that such a nice thing too? Someone screeching about how they're genetically superior to you when in reality, they're nothing but thieves. It'd be about as stupid as if Ryder took the N7 rank from his father and claiming that he's the best of the best because of it.

[TheodoricFriede]

It'd be about as stupid as if Ryder took the N7 rank from his father and claiming that he's the best of the best because of it.

He...doesnt...

[Someone With Mass]

It'd be about as stupid as if Ryder took the N7 rank from his father and claiming that he's the best of the best because of it.

He...doesnt...

I know. It's an example.

[TheodoricFriede]

I know. It's an example.

My apologies.

[UNiT]

Its like I got a different version of the game or something...

different experiences and they see the original trilogy as 1 game instead of 3 and remember it more nostalgia then flawed creation the trilogy is.

Personally I think the game is good.

It could have used some polish before being shipped, but that's really it.

I too feel that Andromeda is a good game. Could have used another half year being polished though.

[magnuskn]

Yeah, that insinutation that we all are looking back at the trilogy with rose-tinted classes is a bit demeaning.

Yeah... wasn't really insinuating.

Sure, sure. While you're overhyping a mediocre game because it tickles your fancy. Whatever-