Tali'Thread vas Clan Zorah nar BSN 6.0

[Alienmorph]

Gameplay-wise Half-Life has never been all that innovative, I'll grant everyone that. But it was still more unique and interesting than most FPSes at the time because it had a cool story to tell, and it did mostly through "show don't tell" techniques. Which is something most current "AAA games" still try to imitate, and often fail miserably at, one might add.

I don't think alot of people sees it as some kind of "groundbreaking and innovative game", it was just a very good one, and it sucks it's not gonna get finished. Or likely any other Valve series, at this point. I would have loved one last trip back in the HL world, or in Aperture Labs...

[Someone With Mass]

What I find sad is that everyone just abandoned the destructive environment thing that was going on in games like Red Faction and Bad Company. They said that they didn't like that the map turned into an empty wasteland after/during every match, since that promoted spawn camping, but I think that's the entire appealing thing. Few things beats introducing two snipers hiding in the loft of a barn to my friend Mr. 150 mm Anti-Tank Shell.

Shit, that's one of the reasons why I like XCOM 2 so much. When I need to rush an objective, I simply punch holes in the walls with my grenade launchers to make shortcuts.

[Alienmorph]

That's the whole bloody point of destructible environments... if you level too much of the map there's no more places to hide for you either. But I guess better stick to the CoD-like bullshit that's more familiar to everyone and more easy to implement.

And no, if here's any CoD fan don't take it personally, you know what I mean. Just talking in general of the usual small, un-interactive kinds of maps that most asshole players love because it's easy to get familiar with and set ambushes or spawn-camping in. Even the Ghost in Shell online game that came out a couple years ago (and that will close in the next few months, unsurprisingly) did that ffs.

[Mazder]

Nah, fuck you and everything you stand for.

Half Life was a ground breaking game that set the precedent for many games after, much like DOOM for FPS games in general.

Half Life 2 Episode 3 is a universally wanted game. I have yet to meet anyone, aside from you, who didn't want it made, and Valve pretty much shit on its fans.

And you just had to be an asshole. Seems to be a universal trait for you.

Yeah for it's time, but as soon as that passed it lost it's relevance.

Half Life 2 Episode 3 or Half Life 3 wasn't really entirely necessary past 2011. Once Portal 2 came out it's kinda obvious that they're not going to really go back to an old FPS that was dated in 2011.

And dated is being kind as being the start isn't all that great. HL2 ep3 would need not be something other than what HL2 ep2 was. The mechanics were old, the engine old, the graphics old, the larger audience probably wouldn't have cared for it and the core audience would have burned through it in a week.
The best time to release anything Half Life was back when it was actually popular and not held up by a ridiculous nostalgia factor.

[Alienmorph]

Yeah for it's time, but as soon as that passed it lost it's relevance.

We thought the same for Doom. Yet here we are today.

Don't be too dismissal of a series because it doesn't get a fresh new entry every christmas like some of the big dead horses.

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz0GYo3pjyw&list=WL&index=18

[Mazder]

Yeah for it's time, but as soon as that passed it lost it's relevance.

We thought the same for Doom. Yet here we are today.

Don't be too dismissal of a series because it doesn't get a fresh new entry every christmas like some of the big dead horses.

And for a reboot it's not done much else other than a nostalgia trip.
DOOM thankfully had no plot to advance so it's of little relevance that it was just for another round of mindless slaughter. DOOM being the only thing of it's kind worked once, now it's honestly so generic FPS that it doesn't really matter.

I mean if you're gonna bring it back I would expect it to do something.
Maybe I am just not the core audience because I am not wearing the rose tinted goggles for these games.

My reaction for these games is now ;

[DarkStorm]

Doom actually has a decent story its just not rammed down your throat and you can choose to ignore it. And it did change how doom played, double jump and weapon mods thats all new to doom as well as how the chainsaw works. Also upgrading your suit is new to doom as well.

Is any of this new to fps, no.

[Alienmorph]

And for a reboot it's not done much else other than a nostalgia trip.
DOOM thankfully had no plot to advance so it's of little relevance that it was just for another round of mindless slaughter. DOOM being the only thing of it's kind worked once, now it's honestly so generic FPS that it doesn't really matter.

I mean if you're gonna bring it back I would expect it to do something.
Maybe I am just not the core audience because I am not wearing the rose tinted goggles for these games.

Except the new Doom is a relaunch, not a reboot. It IS a sequel of the original two games. And it adds quite alot of new gameplay features too. As well as having a singleplayer that's much more polished and enjoyable than most modern FPSes, which nowadays just use the "campaign" just as a glorified tutorial for the multiplayer.

There's not much point to discuss these kind of games tho if it's a genre you just don't give a damn about. It's hard to do so nowadays, so I understand your opinion, but making a good or even a great FPS is possible and has been done in the past.

[Mazder]

Except the new Doom is a relaunch, not a reboot. It IS a sequel of the original two games. And it adds quite alot of new gameplay features too. As well as having a singleplayer that's much more polished and enjoyable than most modern FPSes, which nowadays just use the "campaign" just as a glorified tutorial for the multiplayer.

There's not much point to discuss these kind of games tho if it's a genre you just don't give a damn about. It's hard to do so nowadays, so I understand your opinion, but making a good or even a great FPS is possible and has been done in the past.

Don't get me wrong I like FPS's, Wolfenstein The New Order was one of my favourite games of 2014. All I am saying is by the current standard DOOm is nothing more than a good game. It's not "OMG THE BEST THING EVAR" and doesn't/hasn't done anything new for the genre. The franchise catching up to modern day isn't anything to write home about.

Is any of this new to fps, no.

Which is exactly what I have been saying. It's nothing new so it's not all that relevant to the genre as it's just another game in that genre.
Starting the genre doesn't give it any extra benefits, especially when all they've done is caught up.

[DarkStorm]

"The franchise catching up to modern day isn't anything to write home about."
Many would disagree especially if its a franchise they love and would want with improved everything.

[TTTX]

The franchise catching up to modern day isn't anything to write home about.

When it is done good, I think it is.

if only because video companies have made quite a few bad reboots and modernizing the franchises.

[Mazder]

"The franchise catching up to modern day isn't anything to write home about."
Many would disagree especially if its a franchise they love and would want with improved everything.

Yeah it's fine for the core audience. otherwise it's just another decent game out for everyone.
To get the response of joy I'd personally expect a little bit more.

Mind you I still get bored of it easy. Even when I need a generic hack and slasher and shooter I turn to something else. I never really give DOOM much thought at all TBH. And that's what I mean when it's not really relevant, at least to me. Half Life, even less so.

[Alienmorph]

Don't get me wrong I like FPS's, Wolfenstein The New Order was one of my favourite games of 2014. All I am saying is by the current standard DOOm is nothing more than a good game. It's not "OMG THE BEST THING EVAR" and doesn't/hasn't done anything new for the genre. The franchise catching up to modern day isn't anything to write home about.

Wolfenstein is another good example yes. It started out as a Doom clone with nazi. And it managed to make a great return. By all intents and purposed that WAS another franchise "catching up to modern days"... so that too is not noteworthy?

When done right, it's great. DOOM, Wolfenstein, the new Quake also has some good potential. When done wrong you get instead shit like Duke Nukem Forever.

And now we'll likely never know in which category an Half-Life, L4D or Portal revivals would have fit in, because Steam is too busy counting the money other people are making for their platform, and ignoring the shitheads among that category as long as they get more cash to count.

You may not care, but imagine a favorite series of yours that after a several years hiatus is just quietly declared dead, or briefly brought back with a sub-par sequel THEN killed off almost certainly for good.

Ohwait... that's exactly what we just went throught this year with ME ... so how about some simpathy?

(sorry if that sounded abit too pissy btw, I'm just trying to get my point across)

[Mazder]

Wolfenstein is another good example yes. It started out as a Doom clone with nazi. And it managed to make a great return. By all intents and purposed that WAS another franchise "catching up to modern days"... so that too is not noteworthy?

When done right, it's great. DOOM, Wolfenstein, the new Quake also has some good potential. When done wrong you get instead shit like Duke Nukem Forever.

And now we'll likely never know in which category an Half-Life, L4D or Portal revivals would have fit in, because Steam is too busy counting the money other people are making for their platform, and ignoring the shitheads among that category as long as they get more cash to count.

You may not care, but imagine a favorite series of yours that after a several years hiatus is just quietly declared dead, or briefly brought back with a sub-par sequel THEN killed off almost certainly for good.

Ohwait... that's exactly what we just went throught this year with ME ... so how about some simpathy?

(sorry if that sounded abit too pissy btw, I'm just trying to get my point across)

In terms of "What does it bring to the FPS genre it helped create" right now Wolfenstein and DOOM aren't really bringing much, so I'd say it's not noteworthy, especially in the sense of "OMG WOLFENSTEIN IS BACK AND IT'S THE NEW BEGINNING OF GAMES" which was around when it came out, the same with the newest DOOM, but ultimately they haven't changed anything.

I'm not saying they're bad games, but they're not relevant in the sense of being all that special outside of their history. They're not going to be the new guard for a new gaming zenith. They're not bad games they're just not shaking anything up, like what people are treating them like. Before they may have been the gold standard and the forefront of the tech and genres but now they're kinda similar to what has come since then. If there were no progress from HL2/DOOM and then the latest wolfenstein and DOOM came out as they are then the hype behind it would be justified to it's level IMO, but as it is the level of hype given to them and the amount of forgiveness that they're allowed is not matching up to the product received knowing we didn't stay still in those past games and that we've innovated sine then.

As for this year's Mass Effect, yeah it wasn't anything to write home about despite it being in the "ActionRPG" genre the original ME helped create. If you were to ask me what it added or for something to show how relevant it is to the genre as a whole I'd pretty much draw a blank.
The game adds much for the ME franchise itself,but for actionRPG's it's kinda just another one, to be fair.
This doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, it just means that you're not marking a milestone by it.

I mean the milestone for the latest DOOM and Wolfenstein is "HD/modernization" but that seems kinda hollow.

At the end of the day I'm not saying I didn't enjoy these games, it's just by now after a long wait such as it was with HL2ep3/HL3 I had given up ages ago because the relevancy of HL had gone down until it was a meme only.

[Dragaros]

I never got into Half Life, but I had a bunch of friends who did, and its influence and reach in video game culture was undeniable.







"I was left alone, riding the weaponized luxury liner into the heart of a Combine world. An immense light blazed. I caught a cosmic view of a brilliantly glittering Dyson sphere. The vastness of the Combine’s power, the futility of our struggle, blossomed briefly in my awareness. I saw everything. Mainly I saw how the Borealis, our most powerful weapon, would register as less than a fizzling matchhead as it blew itself apart. And what remained of me would be even less than that."

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpecy-3AiSo

[Alienmorph]

[
In terms of "What does it bring to the FPS genre it helped create" right now Wolfenstein and DOOM aren't really bringing much, so I'd say it's not noteworthy, especially in the sense of "OMG WOLFENSTEIN IS BACK AND IT'S THE NEW BEGINNING OF GAMES" which was around when it came out, the same with the newest DOOM, but ultimately they haven't changed anything.

Okay... so it had to be some kind of "milestone" to be worthy of being brought back? It couldn't just be a good game?

Starcraft 2 for example didn't bring that much new to the table... it was extremely well executed on a technical stand-point and completed the story started in the first game... but it was essentially more of the first game, except in 3D and with some new units and progression systems. And I was absolutely fine with all of it. And so were most of the people that waited a decade to get it...

I didn't want a mind-blowing masterpiece, I just wanted the darn HL series to be completed in a satisfying way.

[Mazder]

Okay... so it had to be some kind of "milestone" to be worthy of being brought back? It couldn't just be a good game?

Starcraft 2 for example didn't bring that much new to the table... it was extremely well executed on a technical stand-point and completed the story started in the first game... but it was essentially more of the first game, except in 3D and with some new units and progression systems. And I was absolutely fine with all of it. And so were most of the people that waited a decade to get it...

I didn't want a mind-blowing masterpiece, I just wanted the darn HL series to be completed in a satisfying way.

A good game is fine, but treating it as something special and new and fresh and really innovative when it just clearly isn't is odd. Calling it out on it not being that, but still being good, isn't me calling it bad, it's just not super specials.

Yeah, but you didn't treat Starcraft 2 as a resurgence of it's genre, it was a good game and was treated as such.

[Alienmorph]

Again, you're assuming I'm treating stuff like Doom like a big resurgence, or that I would have done the same to a new HL. I'm just happy the first was brought back in an entertaining way, and sad the other will remain an incomplete series.

For all I can see, I don't even think such thing as a "videogame resurgence" is possible. AAA devs are too busy to make everything more of a service you pay constantly for, than a single product you buy once and enjoy at your leasure. And is working out so well for them that is not gonna change unless some big head gets chopped off. I just cherish the few good games that still get made by the mainstream industry, and avoid the rest of it.

I leave the talks of "innovative masterpieces" to the PR assholes that are paid to convince the public that having loot crates in singleplayer games is the future. I don't subscribe to hyperboles like "this game series is the salvation of gaming!".

[Mazder]

Again, you're assuming I'm treating stuff like Doom like a big resurgence, or that I would have done the same to a new HL. I'm just happy the first was brought back in an entertaining way, and sad the other will remain an incomplete series.

For all I can see, I don't even think such thing as a "videogame resurgence" is possible. AAA devs are too busy to make everything more of a service you pay constantly for, than a single product you buy once and enjoy at your leasure. And is working out so well for them that is not gonna change unless some big head gets chopped off. I just cherish the few good games that still get made by the mainstream industry, and avoid the rest of it.

I leave the talks of "innovative masterpieces" to PR assholes that are paid to convince the public that having loot crates in singleplayer games is the future.

I'm not using "you" as a specific for just you. I mean "fans in general/the general audience".

The general audience (not half life specific fans) would probably not give a shit if HL2ep3 was released.

[Vol]

I'll have something for him in the next few days = )

I'll look forward to it then! GoDaddy jacked up the price, so I'm bruised.

As a semi-related aside, are any of you guys having your favorite channels get fucked over by the new wave of demonetization on Youtube? Thus far, only people who already were getting no money from it seem like they would be, but I'm not a huge Youtube user.

[Raga]

Holy hell, there have been 18.60 inches of rain where I am in the last 24 hours. Everything appears to be alright at the moment, but it is certainly the most rain I have ever seen.

[Someone With Mass]

As a semi-related aside, are any of you guys having your favorite channels get fucked over by the new wave of demonetization on Youtube? Thus far, only people who already were getting no money from it seem like they would be, but I'm not a huge Youtube user.

The ACG guy seems to be getting screwed over hard by the new algorithm, so he has to rely on Patron donations to get by. Which is sad, because he's easily one of the best game reviewers out there. He keeps it short, funny and insightful. Unlike other reviewers that can drone on for half the review without delivering anything noteworthy.

[Dragaros]

I remember.

[Dragaros]

Grandpa Nurgle hasn't forgotten about you, Tau! He's sending his very own Death Guard to greet you! Free entropic hugs for all!

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TjFqCDrDs

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfaSikdbJE

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucCEox4My1w

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKHjcnOGPhs

[Mazder]

GAH!
Just came second in PlayerUnknown's Bttllegrounds.

SECOND!
I've never come that close to winning!

[TLock]

[img]**snip**[/img]

Grandpa Nurgle hasn't forgotten about you, Tau! He's sending his very own Death Guard to greet you! Free entropic hugs for all!

But...the greater good.

[Alienmorph]

Grandpa Nurgle hasn't forgotten about you, Tau! He's sending his very own Death Guard to greet you! Free entropic hugs for all!

So it happened, the first major battle between Chaos and the Tau, eh? Hope those amors are air-tigh, because Nurgle's Rot is a nasty piece of work to deal with...

This is gonna be interesting, but also almost certainly real painful for the Tau... they barely surived Orks and a Tyranid splinter-fleet... a full Chaos invasion is gonna fuck 'hem up real bad.

[TLock]

So it happened, the first major battle between Chaos and the Tau, eh? Hope those amors are air-tigh, because Nurgle's Rot is a nasty piece of work to deal with...

This is gonna be interesting, but also almost certainly real painful for the Tau... they barely surived Orks and a Tyranid splinter-fleet... a full Chaos invasion is gonna fuck 'hem up real bad.

Very true, I wonder what will happen to them as beings who are not attuned to the warp. I have a feeling that Commander Farsight will an appearance, will make things interesting if he does and saves the Tau Empire.

[Vol]

Holy hell, there have been 18.60 inches of rain where I am in the last 24 hours. Everything appears to be alright at the moment, but it is certainly the most rain I have ever seen.

The Houston area appears to be fucked hard though. Saw pictures of an old folks home, with old folks in it, and the water was up to their chests. Entire first floor of a mall, flooded, water pouring through ceilings at a hospital. At least people knew it was coming.

The ACG guy seems to be getting screwed over hard by the new algorithm, so he has to rely on Patron donations to get by. Which is sad, because he's easily one of the best game reviewers out there. He keeps it short, funny and insightful. Unlike other reviewers that can drone on for half the review without delivering anything noteworthy.

Thankfully, Patreon has gotten Orwellian once and only once that I know of, so it should be a safe harbor in the storm for the moment, and this Youtube purge aught to get it more traffic. A shame it has to happen, but so goes the dollar.

I remember.

God, I wish we could have Web 1.0 again. That purity will never come again.

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaS_hcqQF78&list=WL&index=15

[Vol]

Know what's nice? Got some sleeping pills, Kirkland brand (different chemical than Nyquil). Instead of 6-7 hours of sleep before I wake up and can't go back down, I get 7, then am able to go back to sleep for 2 more. 3 days in a row of 9 hours of sleep does fucking wonders for ones eye-bags and disposition.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p33L3EGTzA

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MucR7MmWRZY

[Riptide]

Know what's nice? Got some sleeping pills, Kirkland brand (different chemical than Nyquil). Instead of 6-7 hours of sleep before I wake up and can't go back down, I get 7, then am able to go back to sleep for 2 more. 3 days in a row of 9 hours of sleep does fucking wonders for ones eye-bags and disposition.

Glad to hear you're getting some rest.

I've always used melatonin for sleeping aids, personally. It's the same chemical your brain produces naturally to make you feel drowsy.

[Vol]

Menat's story costume > battle > default

@Rip: Some, anyway. Work nights, it's never more than 6.5 hours, simply because I cannot go to bed before midnight unless truly exhausted.

Is melatonin a studied supplement or herbal?

[Dragaros]

Menat's story costume > battle > default

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjQe-JY77Uk



I am here to chew bubblegum and slaughter metroids... and I'm all out of bubblegum.

[Vol]

My point stands. Normally I like the sluttiest outfits, but something about her hair texture and the haphazard bandage placement doesn't do it for me.

[Riptide]

Menat's story costume > battle > default

@Rip: Some, anyway. Work nights, it's never more than 6.5 hours, simply because I cannot go to bed before midnight unless truly exhausted.

Is melatonin a studied supplement or herbal?

You don't need a prescription for it, if that's what you're asking.

All I know is that the feeling you get when you're dog ass tired? That's caused by the melatonin your body naturally produces. It's the hormone you secrete that your biological clock issues once it's dark out, after you've been up all day, or when you're exhausted, so it's great for people who just need a little extra help getting off to sleep, or if you're like me, and your internal clock is always screwed up, this way you can keep yourself on a good schedule.

[Someone With Mass]

My point stands. Normally I like the sluttiest outfits, but something about her hair texture and the haphazard bandage placement doesn't do it for me.

I'd say that it falls into the category of being the easy kind of sexy. As in, there's obviously very little effort put into that outfit to make it sexy, whereas the story outfit has at least some detailed decorations.

[Dragaros]

My point stands. Normally I like the sluttiest outfits, but something about her hair texture and the haphazard bandage placement doesn't do it for me.

I like the story outfit the most, too.

I'm also thinking how Tali could rock that outfit.

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Azint]

Bethesda's Creation Club has gone live.

I thought they were paid mods, and we all know how well that went when Steam tried to do it. The Creation Club content are technically not mods, since the big deal about them is that they are indeed created in-house or in collaboration with Bethesda devs. It's not quite DLC like we know, because the assets being sold are still made be independents or even by the devs independently, only with Bethesda's consent and blessing.

This is the limbo between paid mods and DLC.